Didn't he write Battlefield Earth, which was turned into the shittiest movie EVER!

Also the quote about how if you want to make money invent a religion is great

Dian Wei wrote:Any religion that claims that aliens are the cause of anger are fucked in my book. Will watch the videos when i am not pissed.

And any religion that believes a human can do a load of cool miracles, die (and needs to die in a really wretched and grotesque manner) and come back to life for our sins is fucked up in my book. And any off-shoot that thinks that having a senile old man dictating their dos and don'ts is also fucked up. And any religionthat believes crazy shit like their god turns into a dwarf and t take on a demon king is fucked up. ALL RELIGIONS ARE FUCKED UP. Except for possibly Buddhism. And that's only a maybe because I know little about it and it doesn't believe in a supreme being.

The only rason Scientology gets all this 'brainwashing cult' bullshit above and beyond the other "religions" is because it is recent and therefore it has been exposed to a more cynical audience.

Atom wrote:I just would have asked the questions better, organized a meeting with a Scientologist (no matter how hard it is to get one) and made sure that by the end of our meeting they were speechless because they couldn't come up with an answer.

Tom, you talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? lets see this happen!! i'll turn it into a RR sponsored event!

MUTANTS VS SCIENCE : ROUND I


great news!

Blingrose Farmyard, Crankdemtoon - 1xth of Decatrydaymber!

i'll see you all there

STD_Caps wrote:The only rason Scientology gets all this 'brainwashing cult' bullshit above and beyond the other "religions" is because it is recent and therefore it has been exposed to a more cynical audience.

Well, there's that. There's also the fact that Scientology is a cult and does brainwash people, whereas the major religions simply indoctrinate you.

Atom wrote:Hostile, I just would have asked the questions better, organized a meeting with a Scientologist (no matter how hard it is to get one) and made sure that by the end of our meeting they were speechless because they couldn't come up with an answer.

What I wouldn't have done was walk into one of their festivals with a camera dissing their precious religion, ok it produced some funny footage but that is a crap way to try and get answers out of people. Its rubbish journalism, I learned nothing from that footage apart from what I already know about organized religion.

Oh yeah, like they are going to go, "Ok lets really talk about what happened in that hotel room" no way. If you conducted an interview (even on the street with a calm member of their church, asking nicely with respect) with some serious questions then you would stand a way better chance of finding some answers. Not just by running round pissing off families.

Surely thats obvious?

You don't understand Scientology. Part of the cult's membership is training in how to deal with uninitiated people. The behaviour in that video? It's called bullbaiting and it's all they do. If somehow he were to sit a Scientologist down and attempt a rational debate with them (which I'll argue he did attempt in his 4th of July videos), all he would recieve for each question would be other questions, such as "how many crimes have you covered up today?" and "don't you feel guilty?". They're psychological techniques designed to intimidate people.

Once again, we aren't supposed to know about OT levels, or the e-meter, or Xenu. These are all protected secrets. What on earth makes you think that these people will just sit down and openly discuss their positions on cult politics? Visit xenuTV and watch the interviews with numerous escaped cult members. Hell, watch the Scientology special on tonight, BBC1 at 8:30 I believe.

Like I said, Mark's aim wasn't fair and balanced journalistic investigation, it was to expose the Scientologist insanity to us, and it's worked.

I agree with Tom.. it's shit journalism. What point is he making here? There's no way they'd be willing to talk with him just turning up with a camera like that.

These people are so brainwashed that you'll never get a straight answer out of them. There's a panorama special about scientology on tonight at half 8 which apparently talks with ex-scientologist. Could be interesting.

Metalbrew Stu wrote:There's no way they'd be willing to talk with him just turning up with a camera like that.

Metalbrew Stu wrote:These people are so brainwashed that you'll never get a straight answer out of them.

See the contradiction? That's exactly the point though, exactly the fucking point! If he can't directly investigate Scientology (which is practically impossible) then the best he can do is expose their madness to the rest of the world and help turn SOME potential victims away from the cult.

STD_Caps wrote:

Dian Wei wrote:Any religion that claims that aliens are the cause of anger are fucked in my book. Will watch the videos when i am not pissed.

And any religion that believes a human can do a load of cool miracles, die (and needs to die in a really wretched and grotesque manner) and come back to life for our sins is fucked up in my book. And any off-shoot that thinks that having a senile old man dictating their dos and don'ts is also fucked up. And any religionthat believes crazy shit like their god turns into a dwarf and t take on a demon king is fucked up. ALL RELIGIONS ARE FUCKED UP. Except for possibly Buddhism. And that's only a maybe because I know little about it and it doesn't believe in a supreme being.

As a side note, I should mention that if a woman is scientologist and she's having a baby, she cant have painkillers and she cant make a single noise...fuck that shit.

Watch this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI

A documentary from the sixties with loads of footage of Mother Hubbard. The programme COMPLETELY rips the shit out of scientology in a very fair way.

STD_Caps wrote:

Dian Wei wrote:Any religion that claims that aliens are the cause of anger are fucked in my book. Will watch the videos when i am not pissed.

And any religion that believes a human can do a load of cool miracles, die (and needs to die in a really wretched and grotesque manner) and come back to life for our sins is fucked up in my book. And any off-shoot that thinks that having a senile old man dictating their dos and don'ts is also fucked up. And any religionthat believes crazy shit like their god turns into a dwarf and t take on a demon king is fucked up. ALL RELIGIONS ARE FUCKED UP. Except for possibly Buddhism. And that's only a maybe because I know little about it and it doesn't believe in a supreme being.

The only rason Scientology gets all this 'brainwashing cult' bullshit above and beyond the other "religions" is because it is recent and therefore it has been exposed to a more cynical audience.

STD Caps is Scientology!

I was drunk when i posted that, but seriously they operate more like a cult than a religion. Also i am not Christian, so no chance of offending me there. If that was your intention, if not then jam jar sex halibut.

jonny_boy34 wrote:[The thing I don't get is that apparently it's on record the Hubbard openly said the best way to make money is to start your own religion. Surely that's all the evidence you need that Scientology is a load of bullshit?

Yes that's true, and I believe he was also jailed for a period for channelling $200,000,000 dollars from the church into his private coffers.

However, I have a theory. A grand hypothesis if you will...

This can all be explained IF...it's a sinister cult!

Seriously, let's assume this is the case: this makes the doctrine of Scientology irrelvant - mocking the ludicrous aliens storyline would therefore be missing the point totally, because the main driving force behind membership and adherence to the church is the attraction of being part of a clandestine organization!

Perhaps, indeed, Hubbard was fully aware of this at the start, and so engineered whatever analogous sci-fi plot he could come up with in order to give the religion a moralistic framework, knowing full well that its attraction to people who mattered would always be the benefits of being in a cult-like fraternity, just like the masons.

Of course, the self-help facade is an ideal way to recruit lots of ordinary, herd-like people - the weak new-age types who are genuinely looking for nothing more than silly remedies to their problems. These people are the cash cows, providing the organization with constant funds so that the 'enlightened' can sit on a pile of cash while running the show.

Therefore, to ridicule Scientology for it's actual beliefs, and for the questionable messianic qualities of its founder, is to completely miss the point, if we take this alternative view of the organization. The dogma is an irrelevant mask to both recruit innocent punters and hide the activities of those who joined the cult not for any faith in alien creation myths, but for the age old attraction of the secret society.






~~

As a post-script - how much of the above can be adapted into a portrayal of the history of religions like Christianity? Quite a lot I imagine.

Hostile, I know what you are saying its just that I learned nothing new from that footage, pretty much all religious idiots are like that, it could have been done so much better.

Going up to a man whose kid is probably round the corner eating cake and asking him about a murdered woman and causing a scene, I'll tell you what, if someone did that to me I'd be pissed off too and would definitely intimidate the bastard.

I'm sure there are way better ways to 'expose the truth about Scientology' than running round other people parties waving cameras in their faces, it looks like a normal reaction from a group of religious nuts to me. In fact you would have to be a complete retard to watch that video and think, wow, after I've seen that now I know Scientologists are mad people! They bullbait, whoa, crazy! No way.

... Dude, there's a HUGE difference between religious nuts and Scientologists! Lemme show you. Here's an imaginary conversation between me and a Christian.

Me: "God is a lie."
Christian: "God is not a lie, the bible tells us so."
Me: "The bible is a work of fiction."
Christian: "The bible is absolute truth, God tells us so."

etc etc. It's repetative and insane, but at least Christians are allowed to talk to normal, rational people. They will have discussions with you. Here's the same discussion, held with a Scientologist.

Me: "Xenu is a lie."
Scientologist: "What's Xenu? You're crazy, buddy. You're probably a racist."
Me: "Dianetics is a work of fiction."
Scientologist: "How many people have you murdered today? You just stepped on my toe! You just said you wish I had cancer! That's racist!"

etc etc. There's a clear fucking difference between your Religious Bastard and your Cult Bastard.

With regards to Mark "going up" to Scientologists, please note that they stalked him around the park. He only attended in order to interview the Scientologist who had picketed his house and told his neighbours he was a pedophile/rapist/murderer.

I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded, but having never heard of Scientology until watching those bullbaiting clips a couple of years back, I was suprised to find just how insane these people were. They're not religious. They're brainwashed.

Let's hope the programme tonight offers some good journalism. I didn't watch the videos but it sounds like the guy was being provocative to bring out the worst in people. The best journalistic tactic with all relgious loons is to approach compassionately and lt them spiel out their own insanity as if it was common sense.

Dian Wei wrote:STD Caps is Scientology!

I was drunk when i posted that, but seriously they operate more like a cult than a religion. Also i am not Christian, so no chance of offending me there. If that was your intention, if not then jam jar sex halibut.

I was merely picking up from your point, hence the quote. Wasn't an attack at you, I was simply elaborating my view from your statement. Also, I referred to both Christian and Hindu ideas as being ridiculous in my post. It was not specifically anti-Christian.

As James noted, there is a compatability between his theory for Scientology 'cult' and most 'religions'. Ultimately, Scientology exaggerates the mechanisms of the main religions and manipulates it all the more. Religions are cults and Scientology is no different. They prey on the fears and insecurities of individuals and offer them hope. False hope, though not always negative hope as such.

Also, Opus Dei, Creationism, the belief in the Rapture and Reconstructionism are all extreme cultish off-shoots of Christianity. I don't know it's name, (I apologise for my cultural ignorance) but Islamo-fascism a la Bin Laden, Al-Zahawi is an extreme cultish off-shoots of Islam. They are cults and they are extreme but they derive from a larger, less offensive cult. As yet, Scientology has not created anything as moronic and dangerous as the above.

There's some good points here - I agree with Hostile when he talks about the difference between the relgious and cult nuts.. The guy entered the fayre with a camera and the scientologists completely proved the point that they'll always divert away from the point...

Although there is one similiarity between Scientology and other religions - they were all made up by very good storytellers, who probably did it for money.

SUPER SAFE! The documentary is on now. SWITCH ON!

STD_Caps wrote:Let's hope the programme tonight offers some good journalism. I didn't watch the videos but it sounds like the guy was being provocative to bring out the worst in people. The best journalistic tactic with all relgious loons is to approach compassionately and lt them spiel out their own insanity as if it was common sense.

Dian Wei wrote:STD Caps is Scientology!

I was drunk when i posted that, but seriously they operate more like a cult than a religion. Also i am not Christian, so no chance of offending me there. If that was your intention, if not then jam jar sex halibut.

I was merely picking up from your point, hence the quote. Wasn't an attack at you, I was simply elaborating my view from your statement. Also, I referred to both Christian and Hindu ideas as being ridiculous in my post. It was not specifically anti-Christian.

As James noted, there is a compatability between his theory for Scientology 'cult' and most 'religions'. Ultimately, Scientology exaggerates the mechanisms of the main religions and manipulates it all the more. Religions are cults and Scientology is no different. They prey on the fears and insecurities of individuals and offer them hope. False hope, though not always negative hope as such.

Also, Opus Dei, Creationism, the belief in the Rapture and Reconstructionism are all extreme cultish off-shoots of Christianity. I don't know it's name, (I apologise for my cultural ignorance) but Islamo-fascism a la Bin Laden, Al-Zahawi is an extreme cultish off-shoots of Islam. They are cults and they are extreme but they derive from a larger, less offensive cult. As yet, Scientology has not created anything as moronic and dangerous as the above.

I know, i was having a joke. The BBC thing was pretty interesting. It isn't as if they gave him a chance to give a non biased report. All they did was harass and demean him.